Jerry!
0 Kudo
15.10 - The High Holiday
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 Iczer eh |
15.10 - The High Holiday |
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Posts: 1162 (12/11/08 10:43 PM) |
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Iczer eh |
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Posts: 1163 (12/11/08 10:52 PM) |
Oh noes, something bad happened so Sam's moving out and uprooting the kid again and will have to start looking for a new guy to start blaming for
everything wrong.
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AzizalSaqr |
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Posts: 497 (12/11/08 11:12 PM) |
I think it was a sign...I get my NBC feed off DISH Network, we lost it tonight due to a rate contract dispute so, no ER or any other NBC shows for me until
they settle things. At least I'm not missing any Goran...
Bleu Profond 2 a Goran Visnjic Website and Message Board: http://gogoranvisnjicatbleuprofond2.com
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Pandorama |
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Posts: 615 (12/12/08 01:05 AM) |
Brenner never looked so good as with cheese on his head. Really.
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Jen |
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Posts: 1 (12/12/08 01:41 AM) |
"Oh noes, something bad happened so Sam's moving out and uprooting the kid again and will have to start looking for a new guy to start blaming for
everything wrong."
AMEN SISTA! *rolleyes* I'm so done with Sam. SO FREAKING DONE. I've hated her since about oh...half way through her relationship with Luka. Has there ever been a more sanctimonious, pretentious, OBNOXIOUS character that the writers have expected us to LIKE? Oy. I hate her. Seriously. Like Sam has NEVER screwed up? Got pregnant at 16 (okay...forgivable). Pulled herself up by her bootstraps and made a life for herself and her child while his father schumcked up constantly (I completely felt her in the beginning). Gets involved with a man who WANTS to love her AND her child and completely craps on him (in case you can't tell, I'm talking about Luka. :P). After moving her child in and OUT of said man's house, she moves in with a creepy old guy. THEN she can't understand why Alex is messed up? Oh, and let's add her KILLING STEVE IN FRONT OF ALEX. Sure. Not her fault. Steve was a creep. *rolleyes* Hmmm. Now she moves him in with Tony, where he's happy, has made friends with Sara, and all is well. Tony lets them go to a party (something it would be hard for someone who's inexperienced in parenting to be able to say no to), and while Alex is trying to FINALLY do the right thing? He gets hurt. And now, it's ALL TONY'S FAULT that Alex got hurt. Huh? Oy. Sam needs a damned CLUE. Or a good whack upside the head. *sigh* I LOVED the rest of the episode though.  JERRY! YAY! I had to laugh, too. I looked at my mom at the end of the epi (we've watched together since the
beginning...I'm 32 and have been out of the house for YEARS now.  ) and went "Who'd have thought Archie would end up my FAVORITE character
who's left on the show." LOL I still love Frank, Dubenko, and well...Neela and I have a love hate relationship. But man. I love me some Archie
Morris.  : The whole Banfield sideline was WONDERFUL. Loved her husband's smarty-pants comment "So YOU'RE the man who slept with my wife!"
HA! Too awesome.
I can't wait to see how it all wraps up. And I'm still hoping for a cameo from Luka and Abby.
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momentator |
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Posts: 668 (12/12/08 07:14 AM) |
Hey, Jen! Don't forget the nice male nurse Sam dumped after Alex burned down the apartment (seriously injuring an elderly neighbor) that they moved into
after she yanked him out of the creepy old guy's house (after Alex watched her kill Steve after Steve raped her which Alex may also have watched). Sam
really should write a book on parenting.
I looked at my mom at the end of the epi (we've watched together since the beginning...I'm 32 and have been out of the house for YEARS now. I think you've hit on the reason people keep watching this show even when it makes them angry. It's become part of our personal rituals. |
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lynnskies |
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Posts: 88 (12/12/08 09:38 AM) |
I really liked seeing Jerry. And I loved Morris- his putting his Santa cookie plate at the baby's side at the end was touching. Banfield grew on me this
episode. I cannot even express how much I loathe the character of Sam. i have to agree with everything Jen posted- all Gates did was let them go to a party-
maybe not the smartest decision, and then Sam just blames him for everything. She hops around from house to house with this poor kid and wonders why he's
so screwed up. It doesn't help that she comes off as a total b every time she is mad about something.
Anyway- just hanging on til the end. I've watched since the beginning and at least the episodes are looking better that at the start of the season! I have to agree with Jen also that I never thought Morris would be my favorite character- I hated him when he was introduced. 
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Jen |
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Posts: 2 (12/12/08 12:43 PM) |
Hey, Jen! Don't forget the nice male nurse Sam dumped after Alex burned down the apartment (seriously injuring an elderly neighbor) that they moved
into after she yanked him out of the creepy old guy's house (after Alex watched her kill Steve after Steve raped her which Alex may also have watched). Sam
really should write a book on parenting.
HA! How could I forget that? What really irritates me is her refusal to discuss anything with the men that she treats as doormats. I seem to remember her being sooooooooo upset that Luka wouldn't talk about his past with her. But she won't discuss the present or the future. *rolleyes* It's Sam's way or the highway, and once her tiny little mind is made up, there's no changing it. No discussion. Just "This is what I'm doing, live with it." I also said to my mom that Tony should have had a little sit down with Luka before he got involved with Sam.
You want to see a character who hasn't grown or changed since her introduction? Meet Sam Taggart. 
ETA: Long time lurker, first (or second, actually  ) time poster. Just
wanna say Hi! 
Last Edited By: Jen
12/12/08 12:46 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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Aimee |
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Posts: 433 (12/13/08 02:30 AM) |
The thing is, TPTB are manipulating viewers; they've done so with Mark Greene, Abby,...etc, by telling only their side of the story.It's a lot easier
to empathize with Sam when they're showing what she's seeing. It's like they are taking her side, she's the one who's right, and so on. S14
was a pity party for Abby. Even the soundtrack showed how lonely and miserable she was ("How to fight loneliness", the song from the...5th or 6th
episode last year) so the easy way out was to blame Luka for everything. The Sam/Gates stuff is the same thing. We were never shown what had truly happened
last episode (the episode I managed to see, I still have to watch this one, this weekend), we didn't see Alex and Sarah pleading to go to the party or how
Tony made up his mind to let them leave. Instead, we got a happy Sam, who was suddenly shocked by the image of her own son lying down unconscious. The camera
followed her around, her reactions, etc. She's the main figure of the storyline so it's "poor Sam, just when she was happy", not "knock
it off, you idiot!".
That being said, I hate this manipulation and I;m equally starting to profoundly dislike the character; I was OK with her, as long as she didn;t get anywhere near Luka, but now she really pisses me off by just being...her. |
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legaleagle1 |
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Posts: 4774 (12/13/08 09:22 PM) Member |
The thing I found most irritating about Sam this episode was when she accused Gates of "taking Dubenko's side." A doctor attempted to take her
son off his respirator, found it wasn't working, and gave a medical opinion that it ought not to be attempted again for 24 hours. Gates, who is also a
doctor, agreed. There was no reason to think either Dubenko or Gates was acting arbitratily, or trying to punish Sam or Alex. Not only does she whine
"It's not fair!" like a three-year-old whenever she doesn't get what she wants, she expects her man to side with her no matter what.
Aside from Jerry's return, I just didn't find anything in this episode to give a damn about. |
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Pandorama |
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Posts: 617 (12/13/08 10:13 PM) |
I don't mean to be overly judgemental here, bit this has been bothering the heck out of me - WHERE does Banfield get off thinking that having a baby is a
good idea? "Let's see...after years of mourning my dead son to the point of insanity and barely acknowledging my husband's presence, we've
been reconciled for a month. I have a new job managing an entire emergency department and can barely show empathy for my coworkers, let alone open up to
anyone. Both my husband and I - again, who have been reconciled for a month - are approaching fifty. So, hey, let's throw an infant into the mix!"
The fact that this so minimizes all the worries that Abby had over having a baby with Luka - and yeah, there were some solid concerns there - makes me question whether the writers are just looking for any old a plot device, even a bad one. I mean, come on. Don't things like this need some foresight? Ack. It annoys the crap out of me when television - or real people - treat the decision to have a baby like the decision to get a cat. Although, honestly, I thought a lot harder about getting a cat than Banfield seems to have about having a baby. |
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Aimee |
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Posts: 434 (12/14/08 01:51 AM) |
I do agree with the above; however, Abby was on the show for six years prior to the baby talk. She had had her own storylines and fanbase, without being tied
to Luka's. And I like to think that the Luka/Abby relationship was Zabel's ...baby. Banfield's only scope (well, apart for being the tough E.R.
head) is to show that even grieving parents can go on with their life and start all over again (wait, wasn't this done before?
 ). So, they;re gonna get her there, one way or another, since there's no time
to take care of things properly (just like Abby's alcoholism wasn't even mentioned anymore).
So why couldn;t they just come up with a different background for her? I guess Luka fascinated them as well... |
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Pandorama |
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Posts: 618 (12/14/08 02:37 AM) |
I brought up Abby's conflict over becoming a mother up to illustrate the amount of thought and soul-searching that goes into such a decision - one that
incidentally occured a month into a just-reconciled realationship (albeit under different circumstances). I'm not comparing Banfield to Abby.
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larues |
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Posts: 323 (12/14/08 07:38 AM) |
Alas....we have such a short list of episodes left. I am thinking that Bassett expressed a desire to make the baby thing a part of her character (alluding to
her own personal baby making triummphs??) and that is why we are going through this at warp speed. Personally I would be more interested in Chuny's
alluded to love life and finding out how Haleh and Lily are dealing with thier families. History does mean something to a long time viewer. Not interested in
Banfield at all....AT ALL.
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Observateur |
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Posts: 6664 (12/17/08 09:20 PM) Member |
I wish we had some posts from season 10, too bad the old Ezboard was hacked because all I would have to do ios cute and past. Everything I wrote five years ago
about Sam/Luka applies to Sam/Gates. The woman hsan't grown a bit. She's still stuck in the same old not-my-fault-but-everybody-else's-fault frame
mind. Pathetic. And Linda Cardellini is a gorgeous talented actress but her acting choices playing mad Sam made me miss with all my body cells new mom
Eloizabeth Corrday, aka the Walking Shrew.
Heck, Sam makes me feel sorry for Gates and I couldn't care less about Gates. Banfiled should dump the hubby and just go for some Morris loving. His kids are gorgeous and beautiful, they would have the cuttest baby ever. There I said it. Jeeeeeerry!!!! Love Morris and the Santa. |
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momentator |
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Posts: 670 (12/18/08 10:25 AM) |
At the risk of hammering anvils I really don't care about, I think Sam's neurotic behavior makes even less sense in this replay with Gates than it did
with Luka in S10.
While I found Samka unhealthy and annoying, I thought I caught a glimpse of some character motivations. I assumed Sam's problem was that she really did have a man to blame for the pain in her life--Steve--but because she was pathologically incapable of confronting him--in fact, danced to his tune whenever he came around--she displaced her anger on other men, particularly those she knew to be kind and patient enough to put up with her crap for awhile. And while Luka's submission to her was pathetic and frustrating to watch, I assumed it stemmed from his past bereavement and almost obsessive desire to create a new family. I didn't like that situation, but I thought it had been designed by writers who actually had a clue and a plan of some sort. Alas, I am disabused of any such illusions now. Five years later, having killed Steve--after being raped by him--and having shipped her son off to reform school for a season or two, Sam is still in denial about the real source of her problems with men? And Gates, a forty-ish guy who has never been interested in monogamy and has his own troublesome teen to handle, he needs her abuse because ???? The writers are just trying to sell us a used car that's already been in a bad wreck. Maybe "hitting the antelope" should be a synonym for "jumping the shark" in this case.
Last Edited By: momentator
12/19/08 11:18 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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Jen |
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Posts: 3 (12/19/08 12:02 AM) |
The writers are just trying to sell us a used car that's already been in a bad wreck. Maybe "hitting the antelope" should be a synonym for "jumping the shark" in this case.I gotta say, that's just freaking FUNNY. :
I've been over Sam since she got her claws into Luka. Never liked them together, and felt complete frustration that such a strong character was being whipped by his woman every day of his life. I just can't stand the character. I love Linda. I think she's a fantastic actress, and she's
beautiful. I just hate Sam. Hate her like poison. *sigh*
Gates has grown on me. Not sure why, but he just has. And to see him being treated exactly like every other man Sam has been with is just stupid. Grow UP woman! Ugh. I'm liking Banfield. I hate that they're having to smoosh her entire backstory into a few episodes, but I guess that's what they have to do. I completely agree that her backstory is WAY too much like Luka's, but whatever. I guess we'll see how it pans out. I love Morris. I know I said that before, but hell. It bears repeating. :
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Aimee |
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Posts: 436 (12/19/08 04:59 AM) |
While I love to analyze the plot, writing and where the writers want to take a certain character, given that I like to think that most of the journey is plan
far ahead (planned as in at least know the outcome), I could never figure out what Sam's scope was supposed to be.
I remember reading a while back that LC was frustrated because she though that TPTB would emphasize her storyline as a single, very young mother, when her only part in S10 through 11 was to be the 'Sam' in 'Samka'. And this, unfortunately for her, is the only way I see her. I've always thought that her reactions weren't thought through, her background, own beliefs or current situation were never taken into consideration. Her actions were actually written for Luka's reactions. I hope I'm explaining this O.K. It's like..everything the writers made her say or do was because they needed to show a certain thing about Luka. She could've been a complex character, she could've been explored, even like that, but those issues were never, ever addressed. Obviousley, I'm biased. Luka fascinated me more than any other character ever, but....- for example, her fighting with Steve for the entire 11th season was seen through Luka's eyes; it wasn't much about her troubles, but his desire to make it all good, fighting for the right thing with the wrong one. What I'm trying to say is that she was a tool and when there was no Samka, TPTB had no clue what to do with a character they've taken down so badly. They still don't know, so they;re just writing her on the go (much like S6 Luka, who was there only for the audience to see Carol's feelings towards Doug ), ignoring the fact that she has became way too annoying.
Last Edited By: Aimee
12/19/08 05:33 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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momentator |
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Posts: 671 (12/19/08 11:09 AM) |
If LC didn't realize she was coming on the show to be the Sam in Samka, she must not have watched much of the previous seasons. I agree that at the
beginning of S10 and the end of S11, she was mostly used as a device to push Luka's story in one direction or another. (And if Goran had not decided to
renew his contract when it expired at the end of S11, I've always wondered if they would have let Steve off Luka.)
But during the middle part of that affair--and ever since--the writers have positively harped (as in harpy) on Sam's identity as a very young single mom. The problems with that IMO are 1) TPTB clearly have no idea what that type of single-motherhood is really like and have given us a dumb, implausible version and 2) the crucial details are all in the past. Whether it's Sam's teen pregnancy or Abby's ruined childhood or Luka's lost family, we can only hear about past troubles in sad speeches or watch the characters brood over them in isolation. That's OK every now and then, for background, but it's dramatically static and no substitute for an interesting story developing in present time. But unlike Luka, who had an evolving storyline about finding a new life in a new world, or Abby, who eventually got a forward-looking story when she returned to medical school and started a family with Luka, Sam has never been given a goal that could move her story forward. And now that she's 30 and Alex is 15, the pull-date on that teen mom story has expired. She's stuck with nothing to do but $+%#% and whine. It's a drag for us and I can imagine it's a drag for LC as well.
Last Edited By: momentator
12/19/08 11:22 AM.
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Aimee |
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Posts: 437 (12/19/08 11:36 AM) |
And if Goran had not decided to renew his contract when it expired at the end of S11, I've always wondered if they would have let Steve off Luka That's a very interesting point of view, because I've also wondered about the aftermath of Goran's decision, but I just thought they would've patched things up between him and Sam. And that's because the relationship really started to go downhill from the middle of the 11th season, when the contracts were signed, Zabel took over and they were heading towards a Luka/Abby ending. So they had about 7 episodes in which they could've at last left thungs in the air, something like Luka and Sam decided to move away, start all over again, etc..but without mentioning if those two were going to work (a bit like Benton and Cleo, which wasn't final enough for me to say 'they're never going to split'). Or ;Luka would've bought a new boat and move away alone, like he started on the show. Him dying was never a possibility for me... |
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Jen |
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Posts: 5 (12/19/08 08:53 PM) |
I've always thought that her reactions weren't thought through, her background, own beliefs or current situation were never taken into consideration. Her actions were actually written for Luka's reactions. I hope I'm explaining this O.K. It's like..everything the writers made her say or do was because they needed to show a certain thing about Luka.That's VERY well said, and makes perfect sense. I do realize that the writers were trying to get more of Luka's story out, and turn him into the fan favorite that Clooney was (and personally, Luka was FAR better written, and much more complex than Doug ever was. Plus, he's a lot more intense, fascinating, and let's face it, hotter. ). I liked Doug, but I LOVED Luka. In any case, putting it in that perspective makes a lot of sense.
I just wish that she'd stop using the same lines and attitudes that she used on Luka on EVERY guy she dates. :
But unlike Luka, who had an evolving storyline about finding a new life in a new world, or Abby, who eventually got a forward-looking story when she returned to medical school and started a family with Luka, Sam has never been given a goal that could move her story forward. And now that she's 30 and Alex is 15, the pull-date on that teen mom story has expired. She's stuck with nothing to do but $+%#% and whine.Again, well said. Which pretty much hits the nail on the head of why I can't stand Sam. She hasn't changed or evolved. She's still the same sanctimonious, self-righteous snot who treated Luka like a little boy. Nobody's allowed to make mistakes other than her, and she doesn't admit it when she does.
Or ;Luka would've bought a new boat and move away alone, like he started on the show.Which would have been a better ending for me than him ending up with Sam. Much better.
I loved Abby and Luka the first time around (never liked her with Carter), and I loved them the second time around. I'm grateful they ended up a couple at the end of it all...even if it was all a little rushed...but I won't get into that.
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